examination of home ownership in the united states. "washington journal" is next. host: good morning and welcome to washington journal on this friday, april 19, 2013. if news outlets are reporting authorities have killed one suspect in this week's boston marathon bombing and a second suspect is at large. law enforcement has asked the residents of watertown, massachusetts, to stay home and businesses to stay shut as the manhunt is underway. mass transit is also shut down in. the boston in we would like to get your reaction to what's happening this morning. the headline in the boston globe is -- in.nsl us to weig you can also find us online.

send us a tweet. and we can share that on the air. on facebook, look for c-span. or e-mail us. here is the boston globe this morning. looking at the story in the metro section -- state authorities asked people live in the region to stay home in the cities

and towns to stay closed. here's a tweet from the associated press. old, from cambridge massachusetts. dzkh tsarnaev is his name. also, looking at the boston herald, local papers are giving us this news. governor deval patrick made the order for residents in the area of boston and water 10 to stay indoors.

we would like to get your reaction to this news this morning. we have some comments coming from facebook. patricia writes -- sandy says -- is on the line from arkansas, a democrat. caller: good morning. this is becoming a monthly if not a daily thing with vguns.

raing our children. we want movies, we taketo wres, e video games. and the kids are learning the one who wins is the one with the highest body count. this is the world we have created, human beings. it is a very violent world and it's filled with hate and greed and i'm not surprised this happened. host: before we let you go, i want to show the boston globe for one moment. this is the front page. we get this courtesy of the newseum. talks about the manhunt. it also has words from president obama. he spoke at the interfaith service yesterday. he is talking to one of the men involved with the marathon, matt. he told him that he will run again.

some of the people off the limbs -- lsot limbs. does that give you hope or inspiration? caller: of course. the human spirit is here to stay, but we have a lot of problems to work out. we have to start raising our children right. host: you can see more images from yesterday's interfaith service. the mayor of boston, the governor of massachusetts, and others were there at yesterday's service. bernard in washington, d.c., independent caller. caller: good morning, thanks for taking my call. it's my first time. washington and maryland should be able to have a gun. there's a good opportunity you may be able to take out one person. host: explain what you mean by ccw. caller: that is a concealed

carry permit. there's a chance maybe a terrorist or someone could take out one person in the neighborhood. but to be able to take out a neighbo -- out a whole neighborhood where everybody is armed, it would never happen in this country. host: john is a democrat. caller: good morning. they have a at person of interest that they have seen, i guess, on the have observedey this person of interest, basically stayed around to see e carnage that he left behind. i tt they gotnesut. horriblet was a vy

scene that happened. as the president said that at the interfaith service, he said we will get you and bring you to justice. i hope they get the right person and bring him to justice, because one of the things that our president is doing is basically to keep us safe. i don't the there's anything wrong with that. nothing is wrong with keeping a safe. i think he's doing the best can. the best he we are basically -- he is doing the best he can in order to keep us safe. host: we're getting your reaction this morning from the news out of massachusetts. the boston globe says --

is here is another local paper. this is the boston herald -- mbta is the mass transit system. a new photograph of suspect number two taken from a store video in a cambridge 7-eleven last night shows him wearing a gray hoodie sweatshirt. that's a police say they are looking for. our next caller is tim in middletown, ohio, republican. caller: good morning. i agree with the first caller absolutely. he hit it on the head. it starts at home with the kids and teaching them and the

violence in games and the violence that is escalating in our neighborhoods seems like it coincides and go together. i am befuddled by this. we take consequences and prayer out of schools and we sit back and ask what is going wrong with our kids? he's absolutely right. thanks for taking my call. host: what would be your solution? do you look to public policy? to family? community? caller: absolutely, families, community. we have to get the poor families more support. aree are more people that poor than rich. behalf strategic consequences. alcohol, sex on tv. don't see anybod going r . wear that. everything is glorified.

so we have to teach them consequences. home. to start at host: let's go to stan lee in stamford, connecticut, independent. caller: good morning. are the bomb sniffing dogs less effective because of new chemicals people are using? host: what's your other question? caller: i just forgot. host: that is something we can talk about this morning. we are getting your reaction to the news. the boston globe reports one suspect is dead and another at large in the boston marathon bombings. on twitter -- some coverage of

the interfaith service that happened in boston yesterday. we see an image of the first lady and the president. the baltimore sun says obama's response is one of comfort. he declared the sun will rise over boston. these were his first extended remarks about the bombings that killed three people and injured more than 170 near the finish linef e btorathon. the baltime sun says that the warm note was quintessential obama in a speech that embodied this president's response to national crises. let's listen to the president. [video clip] >> that's what you taught us, boston. that's what you reminded us, to push on. to persevere. to not grow weary. to not get faint. even when it hurts.

even when our hearts ache. we summon the strength that maybe we did not even know we had and we carry on. we finished the race. -- finish the race. [applause] because of who we thatand because we know somewhere around the bend a stranger has a cup of water. around the bend, somebody is going to boost our spirits. on that toughest mile, just when we think we have hit a wall, someone will be there to cheer us on and pick us up if we fall. we know that. [applause] host: president obama speaking yesterday at the interfaith service. here is the "washington times"

-- we're getting your response to the news out of massachusetts this morning. robert is on the phone from california in oroville. republican caller. caller: how are you? they got one. host: what are you looking to happen next? caller: let's just get the other guy. democrat.ey in ohio, your turn. caller: how are you? i believe we have to go back to the basics. stop letting all the o coie us what to do. we have to saying the pledge of

allegiance of the flag in our schools. we need to go back to our churches and back to basic respect. that's what we are missing. ridinghood.ve read these things are all negative. you can turn on the tv and see that every day. when i was coming up, i saw "leave it to beaver" and "father knows best." those are all positive things. i believe there's just too much and too manyg on people saying that's ok. that's where the problem is. not all the problems, b that's where we have to go back to basics. to just becool negative. it's ok to be a good person. it's ok to say i love my mother or my brother. instead of i love my boyfriend

and i have to look sexy all the time. that's what we have to get back to. once we do that, i feel we will be ok. host: this is the twitter feeds from cnn -- clad scotus and east syracuse, new york, independent. hi, ellie. caller: i'm calling to voice my sadness on what the world is coming to. i agree with some of the callers. host: in what sense? caller: i agree with the fact that we have to go back to the basics. we have to take responsibility for our children, but we cannot control the outside world. , althoughyoun

as evil and cruel as they can a19 and 20, what was their upbringing? the other thing the struck me was they have been in this country one year and they have permanent residency? how did that happen? so many things. we just have to stop with this hate. people hate our president. they hate this and that. is sad. -- it is sad. we are a decaying society. it's not okay. host: you mentioned what you have heard regarding the suspect. let's look at what "politico" is reporting. they are citing news reports showing the boston bombing suspects may have come from abroad. th two suspect from the boston marathon bombing our brothers who may be from the

chechnya and the region and have overseas military training. said we believe the individuals have international connections -- the boston globe headline, which is reportined all over the couny by news outlets, is that one suspect is dead and another at large in the boston marathon bombing said. parts of massachusetts are shutdown as authorities look for the second suspect. george is in tampa, florida, republican. what are your thoughts? bby.er: good morning, li i turned on the news this

morning to see the suspect was dead. these people always involved in these things wind up dead before we can find out how they are connected to someone perhaps involved in the government. very convenient. it happens every time. they don't bother to try to take the person alive to see who there connected to. host: abdul in chicago, illinois, democrat. there's always some type of muslim or islamist connection trying to be made. i don't see how that could be. these boys were 19 years old. i served in the military. a first few years from the age of 17 through 20, i was barely able to get past basic training in the stuff i had to do for my own job before i started getting any advance training. these boys being so trying to figure out how t goadvanced training uch an early age.

the other question is why the children of americare doing the thi they are doing against this country? not only in sandy hook or in colorado or columbine? primarily people first think it is muslims doing this. then when the news pans out, it's not the muslims. they have even tried to tie beastie boys into being chechnyan extremists. that's another islamic bent. they are two young for that. -- they are trying to tidies two noys to being chechnya extremists. are boys from the blue bloods schools in this country doing the things they are doing? host: a facebook remark from patricia --

you can join that conversatnura. look for c-span. weweet t can those on the r. inpendent line, vince. caller: >> good morning. i was just listening to your program. everybody was speaking about parents need to take responsibility.bu but they're not taking responsibility, so we should hold them accountable. if you are raising a violent child, you should be held accountable to the law. . seeds are bad seeds

sometimes, but we need to hold parents accountable. if my child throws a rock through a window, i have to pay for it, because i'm the parents. host: all right. roger in texas on our republican line. what part of texas? right onsouth texas, the coast. host: welcome and go ahead. caller: it occurred to me that we have lost this battle economically. $200.guys spent how much did we spend to catch them? we're going to kill them. welcome to the obama nation. host: roger calling from texas. let's look at some other news stories. we saw in thto of west, texas, the blast at a fertilizer plant. news outlets are getting more sighnted swiore images in theewspapers this morning.

plantast at a fertilizer tears at the heart of a texas town, reports the new york times. survivors are bound by sorrow and loss. and in the baltimore sun, cal fire blast and fear in a texas town. at least 11 killed in a huge explosion at a local fertilizer plant. you see some images. the see in "usa today," town has a long road ahead. nitrogen and fertilizer and what details we can learn from what happened so far. also in the news, the man ricin-painted letters has been charged. he's an elvis impersonator from mississippi. the wall street journal tells us that he has struggled with mental health issues. scare that at naacp

offices in maryland prove to be a false alarm. they show the region is on edge over security concerns. we can see that the naacp employees were going through the mail thursday at theirio headquarters in baltimore when ey found a strange looking envelopeith no return address and had a memphis postmark just like a letteto president obama and republican senate this week that tested positive for the deadly poison ricin. nothing determined to be suspicious. at the article points out, a lot of offices and people are on guard. we're also looking at what's ppening in congress this week. we will be focusing on immigration and the immigration bill in the senate in a little while here on the washington journal. "usa today" reporting senator marco rubio in florida is leading the right flank in the immigration bill battle. and the senate freezes the gun bill in hopes of a compromise.

majority leader harry reid pledges he will come back after the bill fails. the story says that leader reid hit a pause in the gun bill penn state while senators see whether they can find a workable compromise on spending background checks on gun purchases. other news outlets looking at the gun bill that died in the senate yesterday. democrats give us a fight for now on gun bills if the headline in the washington times. we're talking to new this morning about the latest news regarding the boston marathon bombing. in next caller is william elizabcity, h , a democrat. caller: good morning. don't cut me off. no matter what kind of home training we give our children over here, it has no effect on those young men. they are from another country. they're not from mexico or haiti.

but our focus is on the mexicans and blacks, who do us no harm. but these people are haters. and we have so much hatred over here. thinke -- where do you these men got their guns from? probably did not have a background check. even see eric schultz and more on msnbc any more. getting a call is little fuzzy. i'm not catching everything, but we caught the first part. ,et's go to ian in tempe arizona, independent. caller: good morning. i hear a lot of callers saying what parents should do and told

a parent accountable, but i feel these individuals, the suspects, they do belong to a particular and a against our capitalistic society. they are going to attack us as infidels. unfortunately, the citizens are the victims, because we support this system. it's not about the parenting. it's about the political side and the religious side. they are attacking corporations and we support those corporations. host: all right. we are talking about the news out of massachusetts. the boston globe headline -- on our facebook page --

will also have some folks talking about immigration. trisha says -- at reports on where the suspects could have come from. latest story says there may be from chechnya and may have overseas military training. according to reports from nbc and other news outlets. nbc has also reported the suspects are legal permanent residents who had been in the u.s. for about a year and there you can give us a call to share your thoughts and impressions, what you think about this story. the boston globe and the boston herald have been looking at the story, both from a local perspective as well as national and international. we see the boston globe giving us more details of what is

believed to have happened thenight and where some of incidents have taken place. police are warning residents in east watertown, massachusetts, to stay in their homes and not answer the door for a less tasty and uniformed police officer outside, because of the manhunt going on in that area. our next call is from fredericksburg, virginia, mary, independents. caller: thanks for taking my call. i did not expect to be on tv so soon. i believe that everybody is a responsible for what is happening in the world. every single one of us. told that gallo asked me what i was confident about, i read this wonderful quotes that says when the power of love overcomes the love of power, that is when peace happens.

that makes so mucsens everyone needs to look at -- we all need to look at ourselves to see what we can do to make this world a better place. that said. -- that's it. host: date is on our republican line in michigan. -- dave. caller: i've been watching television all night on this incident. i can only reflect on one thing. i don't mean to make anything political about it, but i cannot help but think life was a lot quieter when george bush was in office. ever since mr. obama has been in office, i can go all the way back to the gentlelady in california that was shot in ahead to all these terrorist in st.ts that we call people killing people, like in the movie house -- insane people

killing each other, like in the movie house, and the man in texas that shot all the soldiers, and the people in benghazi that killed our ambassador. then i reflect back on how people behave in wisconsin when there governor made a decision that was controversial to their political point of view. and in the same thing happened in michigan. and the underwear br, wn waii, were it not for brave man, weoulkt that. and the man in new york who tried to blow up people in new york. : you talk about shootings. we can look back to the columbine high school shooting in colorado. then the 9/11 terror attacks. , ithe 9/11 terrorist attack monicao tell you, lewinsky was servicing bill clinton when he was talking to the sergeants about -- the

saudis about them giving him osama bin laden. if he had put osama bin laden in prison, we would not have had 9/11. and he was more interested in what monica lewinsky was doing in the oval office that day. host: where are you getting your news right now? you said you have been watching tv all night long. caller: i have been watching all the channels. msnbc, cnn, fox news. host: have you been looking online? caller: i don't have a computer. host: now to milwaukee, wisconsin, dennis is a democrat. caller: hi. first of all, i have been listening to the program. i have seen three people so far more or les'happeng on obama and the government.

these idiots, i don't know where they come up with this stuff, but they are a joke. you everthing, if notice, whenever there is a horrific incident, it's done by white males. you don't see blacks doing it or hispanics. it's always white males. host: >> where are you getting your news from these days as he watched this unfold? caller: i watched c-span every day. and sometimes:00 after that. but from 6:00 a.m. to 9:00, i watch c-span and then i watch nbc. host: do you look online?

are you reading the newspaper? caller: no, tv. but i heard about the suspects this morning or about 2:00 this orning on the radio, on wbbm radio, because i'm a news freak. i listened to news allayve y. st speaking of news, on twitter -- we will talk more about terrorism in the united states. reps.bioterror that will be later this morning at 8:30 a.m. eastern time. we will talk with colonel pringles larsen, the founding director of the institute for homeland security. -- colonel randy larsen.

coming up, immigration. we will talk about that in a moment. this weekend, virginia beach is our focus on "book tv" and "american history tv." here's the city manager talking about virginia beach's history and life today. [video clip] >> virginia beach is a unique place for a lot of reasons. as a kid growing up in the midwest, the thing that impressed me most was the presence of the water. the ocean, chesapeake bay, the back bay. we are literally defined by the surrounding bodies of water. like is the history of the area. beachthe wher the first engli spea settlers arrived here and landed at cape henry.

the history of williamsburg, which is right up the river, and jamestown, it is really the founding location of our country is right here in virginia beach and this immediate area. if you are history buff, it's a fascinating place to be and a fascinating place to explore. the population of virginia beach is 450,000. we have crossed that this past year. tourism,industries are military, agriculture. most of the growth in this whole region has been through the department of defense, the military, defense contractors, shipbuilding, hundreds of years of history here building ships. we're the only place in the world that builds nuclear aircraft carriers and submarines and those kinds of vessels. the full range of maritime business. the report. hampton roads is probably the largest physical port. -- on the east coast of the u.s.

the challenge is running a city like virginia beach are probably not a lot different than most every city in the country right now. that's all all changing relationships of federalism, the relationship between the state and federal government changing dramaticallymaking it much more difficult to finance the operation of cities to keep up with the needs in terms of part, and just the ongoing eds of the community for cultural, recreational, those kinds of activities. resources are getting harder and harder to find. and the competition for those resources is sharper than ever and it's a real balancing act to try to sort through that and come up with a program that will take us out through the next 50 years. >> "washington journal" continues. host: rebekah kaplan is a staff writer with national journal. guest: thanks for having me. host: we saw the senate bill

released. the gang of eight. what are the hallmarks of this bill? guest: a few major elements. probably the most high-profile issue is the pathway to citizenship for people, about 11.5 million illegal immigrants currently in this country. what the program will do with a few triggers at the beginning such as a border strategy by the department of homeland security being operational, it would allow most of those people to apply for residential status. means they will not have been convicted of a serious crime, they will have to pass a background check, paying taxes, and pay a fine. that's for six years. and they can have another background checks and pay a fine. that would allow them to work and travel and come out of the shadows. if you years s fe mchmas like an e-

vefy system being operational, at that point they would be allowed to apply for permanent residency. and another background check to prove they will be able to pin employed and not the burden on society. if it passed that benchmark, after three more years, they will be allowed to become a citizen. that leaves us with a 13-year path to citizenship for the people here illegally now. it will be a little different if you were brought to the country before the age of 16. dreamers will have five-year path to citizenship. and agricultural workers who feel an important need in a lot of our industries, if they also are looking at a five-year. path to year the other big part of the plan is for security. that will put up to about $6.5 billion into a department of homeland security plan calls for more security strategy that combines personnel, the ground, and technology like drones to monitor the border.

as far as interior enforcement, there will put in place a mandatory employment garrett overification system, e-verify. and assistant to make sure e- verify is manageable and for employers and fraud-proof, to mae people cannot make up social security numbers or work off stolen social security numbers. st: the gang of eight spoke yesterday on capitol hill. four republicans and four democrats. lindsey graham of south carolina addressed concerns that he has heard from his peers about the pathway to citizenship. [video clip] >> learn the language, as a civics exams, pay a fine, work, pass a criminal background check, half of my family would be excluded. this is no easy task. [laughter] i'm glad we are not applying it to ourselves. i knowe is that america

is ready for immigration reform. you look at all the polls. if the congress ready to do something that we should have done a long time ago? i really believe we are. if you think the border can be better secured, we have an idea for you to consider. if if you think there is a shortage of illegal labor in the current system works too hard to access, we have an idea for you to consider. if you are a union member or just an average american word about losing your job with cheap labor coming into your country, we have an idea to prevent that. if you are in the shadows and you are worried about what's going to happen to you, we have a solution. you are going to have to earn the right to be an american. it's fair and tough, but it's going to be available. i have one b this is all said and done, there will not be a third wave of illegal immigration. ronald reagan gave amnesty to 3 million people trying to do the

right thing and the congress failed to follow it through. if if we give the 11 million a second chance and we don't secure our borders and fix the broken immigration system can and provide access to legal labor and all the things we should have done 20 years ago, shame on us. this bill fixes the problem in my opinion. i am going to fight for this bill. if you have a better idea, bring it on. if you want to kill it, we have to talk about that. host: senator lindsey graham of south carolina. roberta kaplan, who is his audience? guest: two groups talking to. the first is the american people are not unanimous about whether people who entered this country illegally should be able to become citizens one day. so he is speaking to the american people broadly, a minority, but people not get behind a lot of the provisions in the proposal. on capitol hill, there are some people who are very concerned

about what happened in t last timerede rgan granted a mass amnesty. there were about 3 million people at the time who re legal aftethat process. what's happened over the last few decades is that people just kept coming back here illegally. that's one of the things people are very concerned about stopping this time. chief among those people is jeff sessions from alabama. he has two major concerns probably will hear about today in the judiciary committee. one is that the influx of workers into the legal system will create too much competition on employment opportunities and wages for american workers. he's also concerned about long- term entitlement costs. in the first 10 years while people have the registered provisional immigrant status, they're not eligible for any federal benefits. it's not until 10 years they were able to access those programs.

senator sessions is a. a decade out, or 15 or 20 years, we will have big entitlement costs. host: if you would like to join the conversation and talk about immigration with roberta kaplan of national journal, here are the numbers -- -- rebecca kaplan. as our guest mentioned, there will be a hearing today for the senate judiciary committee on immigration legislation. c-span will carry that live 10:00 eastern time crapper this program. you can also find it on our website, c-span.org. eightlook at the gang of and the republicans among that gang, how significant is if they have signed on to the proposal? guest: there is arranged. you have people like senator john mccain, who has worked on this issue a long time. he was part of the big effort in 2006 and 2007. he has been a captain of the republican team along with chuck

schumer from the democratic side. probably even more high-profile and keep this effort is marco rubio from florida, a lawmaker with a lot of tea party credentials. he has maintained a conservative record on a lot of other issues. he voted against the fiscal cliff deal over the new year. that has helped him asserts that i'm still a conservative even though i'm working on immigration reform. he's trying to sell a more conservative vision for the insistent and our country and our during that what we have now is amnesty, effectively, and the best thing to do is fix that system to get people legal so we can abide by the role of law. he's a key voice not only to appeal to republicans around the country but also to provide cover for republicans in the senate to might be little nervous about voting for the package, since they are worried there might be a lash from their constnt : on e pnecaller good morning.

thanks for taking my call. i have been busy watching this immigration bill from the senate. my issue is that is there any way there would be a commitment for people who have been in america undocumented for more than 10 years or so, like the provision for people that our guest workers or people that came here and there were 16 years old? is there any way they can adjust people that have been trying to file for the past 10 years or something but the administration did not allow them to get a green card for residency? some kind of leeway that would make it easier for people that have been filing for years that did not get a green card? host: would this affect you personally? caller: no. i have a family member here that

they are asking him to leave. he's been here more than 10 years and has filed. they refused him. a long way it and that has contributed to the fact many people choose to come here illegally instead of working through the legal process. there willsome rorms t at sysm make work faster. they will create two tracks. a merit-based visa that takes into account the unemployment level in the country. then we will look at your education, employment, how long you've been in the country, whether you have family connections here. there will be a separate path that deals with family members here. if you have a spouse or child of a legal permanent resident in this country now, they will be billed to come here immediately under this plan. people who have been here 10 years with work obligations, they will be able to become permanent residents. as far as the people who have

been here long time, part of the plan if you have to have been here before december 31, 2011, to be booked to apply for this registered provisional status, because they want to make sure they don't have people coming across the border in waves now that they have heard the u.s. might be legalizing a bunch of people. so that the cut off. you have to have been here before december 31, 2011. the: our caller asked about amendment process. how will that work? guest: the first hearing, right after our program this morning at 10:00 will be the senate judiciary committee. it will start considering the entire plan as presented by the gang of eight. there will be a few different aspects. secretary janet napolitano from homeland security will testify before the committee. she willbay talk about border security, how to come up with a strategy for making sure we are securing our southern border there's also going to be two economists talking today. douglas holtz-eakin, former

director of the congressional budget office. and another economist named peter, who is on the u.s. civil rights commission. they will testify about how illegal immigration can affect the u.s. economy. a hearing on friday. then on monday a second hearing. after that we have to see how the process unfolds. especially republicans on the judiciary committee are calling for more than the currently scheduled hearings. probably sometime in early may we will move to the markup process which is where the senators on the judiciary committee can begin offering amendments and releasing how they want to continue to shape the bill. we hope it gets passed out of committee and go to the senate floor. host: rebekah kaplan of the national journal. wilmington, north carolina, kathleen is on our democrat line. is roberta our guest aplan.rebecca

caller: my biggest fear is that our country is in a state of fear. thing wehe worst could ever have as americans. we have based our country from the beginning of a great work ethic. there are so many things we could do instead of being frightened every time something happens. domestically, foreman, and immigration. we have a statue of liberty that does welcome everybody. i believe that we should give some amnesty, because of amnesty would cut out a lot of the red tape and bureaucracy. hasfear factor is what really got everybody so nervous and concerned. host: thank you. guest: people are understandably concerned about american jobs. that will be a big priority of a lot of lawmakers, to make sure if americans are not adversely

affected by the bill. a lot of conservative economists including doug holtz-eakin, grover norquist, argued the long-term economic benefits of immigration are so great that not only will it not contribute to the federal government, but it will help raise the standard of living by increasing the gdp for everyone in the u.s. they argue that reform in this process will actually be beneficial to everyone, to all american workers. there are people who disagree. the heritage foundation put out a study in 2007 saying there would be a negate afct on the deficit. a person who worked on a study in 2008 argued illegal immigration heard the employment chances and wages of black americans. so there's disagreement on the issue anders understandable concern about making a big change in our laws. host: here is the headline of -- wall street journal

we will hear more willrebecca in a moment -- we will hear more from rebecca in a moment. first let's hear from marco rubio discussing the bill yesterday. [video clip] >> let me close with one final point to my fellow americans who share my commitment to limited government and free enterprise who helped elect me in 2010. i would remind them america is a nation of immigrants. republicans and democrats have failed to enforce the law and the result is we have millions of people here against our immigration walker. but we're not going to deport them. let's secure the border. let's bring these people out of

the shadows. there will undergo a background check. they will pay a fine and start paying taxes. it will not qualify for federal benefits. if we all wish we did not have this problem, but we do and we have to fix it. leading kings the way they are is the real amnesty. things theleaving way they are is the real amnesty. host: on twitter -- give us a sense of the size of the bill. guest: 844 pages. initial estimates were that it would be as much as 1500 pages. large billl been a for a lot of the legislative aides, hill to look through. in terms of preparing for hearings today, the members on that tradition in committee who were not part of the gang of eight are working to try to read

through the whole bill in time during it is a bit of direct process. in terms of how it came toth, e grp of lawmakers has been meeting sce after the el to start thinking about how twaedimgr mbshf p s shted. the senator from utah was involved in talks but ultimatel decided not to go along with the direction of the game because he had concerned about the direction of citizenship. it really came together in february when marco rubio signed on, really got on board. as always been a commitment to have the same number of democrats and republicans so it was a bipartisan effort. late january they received -- released a set of principles and that they have been working on since the end of january to craft a bill. the self-imposed deadlines got pushed back a couple times. i think they were a little optimistic about how quickly they could get this done at the

beginning. but there's really a desire for people to tackle this issue before everybody start focusing on the 2014 midterm elections. re-election is no climate in which legislation happens on ction.l hill -- pre-ele host: all the time and money that was spent on this, what we should have done was to say to the illegals, deport yourself and we will not touch you. but if you don't support yourself and you mak af havou, e to put you in pris for two years mandatory and then confiscate money that you made here to pay for your deportation. i think that is what we should've done. host: what do you think about

the republicans who are part of this proposal? open up a cank -- of worms. they're not going to get the spanish vote any way. they are being played for fools and so are the american people. anything ofnot do the sort. host: thanks for your call, mark. guest: one of the biggest changes about the debate piercing now as opposed to 10 years ago is people are not talking about mass deportation as a viable option anymore. it would be a huge cost to get 11 million people out of this country. that's one of the reasons so many people are open to the idea of legalizing and normalizing the status of people who are here. the idea of supporting them is not feasible. there are people -- one of the

most important issues for a lot of people like stephen king of are you in the house is america has law and it should be respected. that's why a lot of people take suwith the idea of legalization or citizenship. one of thehingeff sessions told reporters on tuesday after thfirst overview of the bill in people who came here illegally -- illegally shoulde able to enjoy the benefits of being a u.s. citizen one day. people agree with the caller. but there's been no appetite for rounding up 11.5 million people now. immigrantsa that would self support is not a popular idea especially with senator voters. host: let's take a listen to david fitter's -- vitter's

criticism. [video clip] >> we're concerned this bill is the same fundamentally flawed model from the past. it is immediate amnesty with promises of enforcement. we have tried that model before. it has failed miserably before. if we all want to solve this problem, not continue it, certainly not to grow it. so we are fundamentally concerned that an immediate amnesty with promises of enforcement grow the problem prevent what happened in 1986. that was the model in the 1986 reform. the promise and then was we will just do this once and we will solve the problem and never have to look back. of course we did not solve the problem. we did not nearly perpetuate the problem. we quadrupled the problem. what was 3 million illegal aliens than is milr 12n host: that was the senator from

louisiana critical of the bill. let's hear from a louisiana caller. ruth from lafayette, democrat. caller: hi. theve been listening to prob in boston. hon a person from chechnya be a prominent citizen after only one year? seems like everybody's talking about the southern border. what about the northern border? the soviet union is connected to alaska through the bering strait. i had an opportunity to be in alaska -- i'm a physician. they found some [indiscernible] and through that

the waterway. no one talks about that. i want to know how you can become an american citizen in one year. and why are they giving the mexican people such a hard time? all i have seen is very hard working people who are trying to better themselves. i can understand their plight, inause of all the unrest mexico and the south american countries. guest: thanks for calling. the first thing i would say is it is very early. this is a story that has been breaking overnight. there's a lot we don't know yet. immediately in the aftermath of the boston bombings earlier this week there was a lot of information that came out that turned out later not to be true. we will have to wait and see exactly how the story plays out. but that is a concern, to make sure the people who come into this country are not doing so to harm americans. that is something that will have to be dealt with through this reform process.

there are so many complicated issues at work here. there's a lot of fear when you find out someone who came to this country on the committing a crime. that's part of the reason so many provisions in the bill gang of eight came out with makes sure people have to pass criminal background checks over and over to make sure since they've been here they have not been committing crimes. as for the borders, traditionally, the southern borders have been where we have a lot more southern issues and the economic conditions which are better to the northwest in south and central mexico and it's an issue of you go where the problem is. if you have a problem to solve and since we haven't had an issue with border crossings of that nature on the northern border, it's not something

that's really being discussed. the attention is where the problem rights now on the southern border but there's care taken with our airports, with our seaports to make sure anyone who is coming into this country is doing so in a legal manner. who is "politico"'s headliner -- it's citing nbc news and other outlets that are doing early reports that these two men may be brothers from the chechnyan republic. tom wrote the immigration is dead as of today. rebecca kaplan, what will you be watching in terms of the american perspective on immigration as we watch the story play out? guest: one of the most s inth right after we -- right after the bombings occurred earlier this week, some people -- just a ve small number, started with steve king from iowa, he said these people could have been people -- it could have been illegal immigrants in this country and that's the reason we need to be

extremely cautious with immigration reform and a lot of other lawmakers in washington published back on the idea and say let's wait. and going forward, we're going to listen to all the lawmakers and this is a breaking news situation only a couple of hours old. until we know all this fact, it's going to be hard to draw conclusions to figure out something like this from happening into the system again. host: tricia is next on the independent line. caller: good morning. i have a question that's along the same lines as what we were just talking about. you spoken about the background check. considering what we know or may not know about the two young men who planted the bombs at the boston marathon, how stringent are these background checks?

and i mean, what can be done to make sure that we're not letting terrorists or someone who has ill content for our country into this country? thank you. host: gues that's going to be one of those things that's going to have to work out by the department of homeland security and d.h.s. overse the customs enforcement community. and so they are going to be the ones that work with local law enforcement, work with federal law enforcement to make sure that the only people who come to this country are not one who is intend to do americans harm. host: garland, texas, dean, republican. caller: i want to make a point that it really feel sorry for these people, but, you know, what american people need to understand, we're $16.8 trillion in u.s. debt and the clock is steady tick and we've got 30 million people on welfare and food stamps. if you legalize these 11 million

people, do you have work for them or are they going to run up the debt some more? i mean, we're heading down a real bad road here. you know, we've got drugs all over the country. the cost of living is rising at enormous rate. and we want to leave alive 11 million people so we can go run up the debt some more? i don't understand this logic and you can comment on it. host: a freelance reporter writing congress should suspend visas. it's not fair that the h.v.'s take decent jobs. take care of the home first. host: that's a concern that's shared by senator jeff sessions, about the effects on american emplortuti a was. gut: it something that the bioes try tal wit tha couple of different avenues. a lot of tease -- these are programs, the numbers that are going to be determined, the merit based visas will be affected by the current

unemployment rate in the united states and making sure that they're not taking jobs away from american workers. there's going to be some stringent requirements at high-tech companies to use the visa for visas to make sure they're making a concerted effort to hire americans first. as far as your concern about people getting legalized and going on the welfare goal, with the plan laid out, it's hard to see that happening right now. with the first to 10 years they're in this provisional stalkers people who become legalized during the immigration plan will not be able to access the benefit system. that means no medicare no, social security so there's a lot that they would not be able to take advantage of and some of the requirements for citizenship require them to prove that they will meet a certain percentage of the poverty line to make sure they're not becoming a burden on american taxpayers. but one of the other interesting things is some study the

question of how immigration reform would effect the u.s. system asa in the long run, it's very beneficial and will help bring down the deficit in particular, doug eagan who will be testifying before the judiciary key this morning. he found the deficit ceiling will come down for trillions of dollars. his study found $2.5 trillion because when people become legalized, they will start paying taxes and they'll also have to pay back taxes, fines and fees through part of this immigration system. so that means they're not going to be coughing -- costing taxpayers money to go through this process and as many economists believe will raise the quality of life. host: the senate judiciary committee takes up the immigration bill this morning. c-span 1 will have that live. you'll also find that on our website. rebecca kaplan is a staff writer

at in the national journal. it includes covering the campaign looking at the republican side of things. she worked on that and she also has covered the white house, as part of national journal's team and now she's looking at congress. one of the aspects of congress you're looking at is the house. here's a recent headline of her story. forget working groups, t house juciar is moving immigration ontswn what's happening in the house? >> the chairman is actually an immigration wy by training and that is something he did for a long time before coming to congress. and what we see in the house right is no somewhat similar to what's happening in the senate. last bipartisan group of eight lawmakers and for republicans and democrats and they're working on their own plan and parts of that group, the membership wasn't firmed up until this year but some of those numbers have been working for like four years on coming up with an immigration plan for the house. but as they're working, the chairman who has held five or

six issues have decided he's done waiting for them. he's not saying let's not see what this group is doing but he's saying let's get the ball rolling. and see what we can do. he hasn't said what the timeline is but he's going to start introducing some immigration bills into the committee on single issues and he hasn't specified what those issues are going to be but looking at some of the things that have gone through the committee in the past from people like bob or his predecessor lamar smith, we can guess there might be a verified bill to extend that unemployment verification program. we might see an agricultural program because that's one of the industries where employers might have trouble filling those positions. they could deal with high skills immigrants. those are the things that we might see from the chairman but ose to the vest right now. host: lake charles, louisiana, democrat. hi. caller: hi. host: go ahead.

caller: hello? yes. i am an illegal immigrant and i've been here 13 years altogether now doing it illegally. i am in h-1. i've been in h-1 for six years now. as you probably know, like the maximum time that you can be on an h-1, and i'm really concerned that all that i have got for doing it legally is just let the system turn me finally into an illegal. it's been so hard. i have not gone anywhere. i know a whole bunch of people who use other ways at the limit of -- you know, unlawfulness who got away and got ahead. you know, so rebecca, was saying that finally, this deal has something that would eliminate

the backlog for legal immigrants. but i'm still unsure as to how it would do for me. so please, rebecca, what is going to happen to me in the short term? have two daughter who is are born here and i'm concerned to this, you know. i'm really afraid for them that, you know, i may not get an extension for my h-1 visa and i would become an illegal and then what? petty work? i'm not sure. whatever it is, this bill is going to fall to understand who have been doing it all legally. host: and where have you come from the united states? caller: yes. host: where from? caller: i am from west africa. host: and what field do you work in? caller: education. i'm a teacher. host: great.

well guest: you raise an excellent point and that's a big concern for a lot of people and a major reason that so many people come to the country legally and like you pointed out, people who come from the country from a visa and it expired because the process of trying to stay here has been very complicated. that's within of the things that democrats and the republicans agree has to be dealt with as part of this plan. so some of the reforms are going to deal with making the visas more merit based and that's going to start at about 120,000 visas a year and if the unemployment rate falls below 8.5%, it can go up to 250,000 dviceas -- visas every year. tear going to consider your education, your employment, your family connections in the united states and how long you've been here. and those merit-based visas are

going to go to half for high skills and half to low skills workers. a lot of the backlog in the current system right now and one major concern on capitol hill is people who have come here illegally, not be given a special -- legally not being given a pathway to those people. and the way to deal with that is they have to go to sort of the end of these lines for merit based visas and employment visas and they're not going to be able to jump ahead of people who have been waiting and going to the legal process get in line. they're going to be allowed to wait from this country with legal toss but citizenship is going to come to the people who come to the legal way. host: rebecca kaplan, a look at workers and visas. -- psych here the high school workers of the current versus proposed and agricultural workers.

there will be no hard cap but no more than $337,000 would be allowed at any one time. the current is no hard cap and the proposed would be capped at $112,000 in the first year. and we look at low skilled workers and how that would played out. you talk about the higher worker range. give us more of a sense of both agriculture businesses as well as the communities are looking ent the low skilled anding a - and ag jobs? guest: it was being negotiated by representative for the growers and farm workers and they have the help of a couple of senators dug including dianne feinstein and marco rubioo to hammer out those deals. a lot of jobs that are not filled by americans lie

housekeeping and hotels, construction industries and restaurants. they'll be able to get threar visas that can be renewed over three years and they will start with 20,000 which is lower, with hoping, they were hoping to get more like 400,000 visas a year. and can raise up to 75,000 visas of the year. and ultimately, it could be as high as 200,000 of these low skilled visas every year if this new department called the bureau of embrace and labor market research which is created i by the senator is that it seems the conditions are acceptble and there's a need for foreign employment. on the agricultural front, there's negotiations. both of these negotiations hit disagreements over how much these workers would get paid. for agricultural visas, the 112

now, a year for the first five years and so we will never have more than 337,000 agricultural workers here during a three-year period. it's going to phase out the existing 42a visa program. it's a system that many employers say it's cumber some, work with. and it's a field where it's difficult to find american workers. if you've worked here foa certain number of years, yoe ing toar accelerated process become a u.s. citizen and you would be able to get a green card in about five years. and again, pass background check. not committed any serious crimes and there will be a lower fine right now of $400 for agricultural workers. host: let's hear from bill, independent in illinois. caller: good morning, c-span. my concern is the fact that i know a girl who came here pregnant, illegally and she had

her baby, which became a natural u.s. citizen due to birth right law. she applied for aid to pay for her hospital bill and, you know, and when she did that, d.c. best contacted her and she now gets over $40,000 in federal assistance programs due to the link program, section 8 housing because of the child. nd she also gets daycare assistance and she's working under the table for $6 an hour for a major landscape company in peoria. and when i hear that everybody says well, illegal immigrants will not get any benefits, i hope everybody listening, especially minimum wage workers, i hope they're appalled at what i just told u. ho o let's get a response om rebea. guest: there are certain parts

that the u.s. benefits system that people can access that the supreme cot ruled that people with public access cannot be denied of public school. you share a concern that is i'm sure shared by many people across the cub, but there is a lot -- country, but there are a lot of attention to how much people who are dream a system and house members who are working on immigration plan to make sure that the major federal benefit programs that are putting us into debt are not accessible until they do have green cards. one thing it is important to take into account is the fact that many economists believe that bringing people out of the shadows and allowing them to work not under the table any longer. not only lit mean that they will make a working wage and be able to support themselves better, but they will be bringing taxes into the. so it won't be a drain in the economy. and one of the big parts of the

plan for people who want to gain the provision of legal status is they will have to pay back some back taxes if they were employed under the table in the u.s. host: we see a headline in the "washington times." one member of congress is saying that the president should step aside on reforming immigration. this key democrat says it's congress's turn. and you can hear more on the quote of the interview on "newsmakers." part of that will be on sunday here on c-span, 10:00 a.m. eastern time and 6:00 p.m. let's go to niagara falls, new york and here from levon, a democrat. caller: hello. i don't appreciate the fact that it's not just me, but it's just my family and i. we come from a long struggle. we come from long striving to be better citizens of america.

struggling with education and getting in school, grants and we actually -- i'm an accomplished man of communication of media arts but what i don't understand is how did my life go into shambles behind my stolen bills while i work on bills. my initials are put on products. host: what does this have to do with immigration if caller: every time someone cries about immigration, they get more advantage tan my -- than minorities in health just the general. just even breathing through american citizens to just in general. host: so you have concerns about lack of jobs and opportunities because of immigrants? yes, pretty much. host: ok. guest: that's a widely shared concern. the reality is there are some jobs that have not traditionally been desired by american workers but they're still important positions that still a lot of small and large businesses need to be filled. and so one this aims of current

immigration system is to make sure that those positions can be filled by little workers and there are adjustments in the new visa categories that accounts how unemployment is faring for new workers. host: rebecca kaplan, staff writer for national journal. few for coming in and talking about the immigration bill with us. >> thank you. host: we look forward to having you again. guest: thanks so much. host: next, we'll turn our attention to terrorism in the united states in light of the latest news out of boston. also, other issues that we've been watching this week including the ricin letters sent to members of congress and the president. randall larson will join us, the founding father of the institute of homeland security. we'll be right back.

>> i strongly urge you to come up with a number to tell this committee and the american people we have a responsibility as well. and be able to tell well, we're going to see how this rn out. it will determine the size of the post 2014 force. i believe this is a tragic and terrible mistake for which we may pay a very heavy price. >> senator, can i comment on that? >> sure. >> senator, to be clear, i didn't say to leave it completely vague. we are today, advising, assisting at the battalion level. we're going lift off the brigade level this fall. the numbers linked to the level that we believe we need to provide advice and assist post-2014. >> you have to wait until 2014 to determine that? >> we do not. what i suggested was that this is the afghan's first summer in the league. i believe this summer will be the bellwether for afghan performance into 2014 and beyond.

>> this weekend on c-span, marine general joseph doesn't ford, command kerr of u.s. and lied forces in afghan on expected troop numbers. at 8:230 p.m., the gabes meeting oom. and book tv heads to los angeles for the "l.a. times" festival of books. liveeragbo days th book pelquestions authat the festiva d on espn3, american history tv. looks at revolutionary year of precipitating from the american society in massachusetts. that's sunday at 7:00 p.m. eastern. >>ashington redskins -- washington redskins --

washington journal" continues. host: suspect dead, another at large after police chase. we're watching what's happening in the boston marathon shooting aftermath and what's happening this morning. what are your initial impressions of the latest news? guest: well, was not surprised they had a big break in the case this quickly. we were talking about this even as early as tuesday morning that with all the video that were there, all of the ybses, we thought there would be a quick break. -- eyewitnesses we thought there would be a quick break. so many people with cell phones and cameras and plus, we have all of the fixed cameras on the buildings and i guess the one taylor was very instructive. so getting the people involved in this apparently has been ry

effective in identifying these people. it'sesng now that there was a big debateitthis -- was this middle eastern terrorism if w this the lone wolf operating here with someone who is a attacks protestor? it happened on april 15. now, it's perhaps someone from chetch ya -- chechnya. host: what is your experience taught you about chechnya and what does that mean? guest: it never occurred to the united states that i'm aware of the these are the people that took over a theater in moscow and hundreds of people were killed. there were bombs in there. they took over the schools. you remember that famous case. so these are some pretty violent organizations that have done this. they're trying to break away from russia or whatever.

so it'ses a terrible civil war. their civil wars are always very bloody. this is the first case i've heard from the united states. host: nbc news reporting on the suspects on the attack of the boston marathon. one killed, one on the loose. chechnyan origin. one illegal permanent resident of the united states. law enforcements have told nbc news. and of course, we don't want to lump all chechnyan people to what is happening in the civil war and fighters over there. what are some warnings that you have for allf u speculate and lbout news? guest: the first thing i heard was they were muslim. whenever i hear that associated with terrorism, and i understand that's a knee-jerk reaction that people can have. when you look back at the 19 hijackers from 9/11 and some of the cases we had, lidge in many

cases have been hijacked by many terrors. i have many muslim friends. spent the weekend from a family with bosnian muslims that were there. and they were the ones that were being attacked by the certain terrorists around that city or whatever. so it doesn't make any difference what religion you are. it's the bad people that we have to go after. and i hope that this is the brother that's still alive, i hope they capture him early today. i think that's a big danger. people are going to say they're overreacting with boston wall this lockdown and no transportation and shutting down of schools. i don't think so at all. this individual has demonstrated he's eager to kill innocent young children, innocent citizens. he's on the loose and desperate. i n'seell. host: randall larson.

here's a headline. investigators set for smallest of clues. what's the process like as investigators look for some of this physical details of this attack? guest: this is one of the things the last decade or so, i have at times been critical of the f.b.i. and some of their responses to 9/11. i wrote a book called "our own worst enemy" about some of the dumb things we did and it i give great credit to their level of investigation. you look at their historic record. the 1993 attacks on the world trade center. the bomb they put put on the basement, they figured out quick enough so when the idiots that set the bomb went back to their rental car place to get their deposit back on their truck, it was f.b.i. agents behind the counter waiting for them. look how quickly they traced down timothy mcveigh. one of the things we're best at in the united states is the forensics that took place after

one of these attacks which is why whenever last bomb attack like mumbai or whatever, they request these f.b.i. experts to go over there and do it. i was very positive that we would find so much evidence and there's and then combining that with the eyewitnesses and combining it with the videos that we resolve this rather quickly and also, looking that make a good court it thi to care them, but you also have to make your case in court. that's where the forensics come in. host: let's hear from kenny who is joining us from indiana, republican. hi, kenny. caller: hi. how are you today? host: good. caller: i want to add a question. earlier, i watched the immigration interview earlier and i was waiting for colonel larson, by the way, thank you for your service. you call it knee-jerk reaction from what happened this week and last night. i was face-to-face with a young man who was muslim and he considered all and he was taught

in his church or whatever they call it, that all people who are not muslims are no better than a dog and i mean, i was angry. i'm 70 years old and i have no threat of any kind of harm from anybody from mexico. ay don't they kind of make it -- for people from o.c.'s that have threats and want to cause damage and kill people innocently, it's certainly not people from mexico. and i understand what you said a while ago. you have muslim friends and i'm sure there's people that are good from all different religions. mexico is not threatening us. it's the muslims. and i would like your response. guest: well, kenny, i'm fellow who was raised in new castle, indiana, and i just disagree

with you. i can tell you, i've done a lot of work look the southern border and there are some really bad people in mexico, particularly those involved with the drug business. and actually, they don't care if they're making money on drugs or bringing prostitutes or illegal aliens or whatever the united states. i'm talking about some of the baddest people in the world. does matter what religion oreit culture you come from. there are bad people and good people. i get nervous when people throw run the term muslim. when people blow up an abortion clinic, we do not say he is the right ring question. the christians i know do not blow up abortion clinics even though some people who claim to be christian blow up abortion clinics. when i grew up in indiana, i did not know muslims. my life changed traveling around the world for the last 40 or 50 years. one of the problems is we are

isolated in the united states. we do not get to know a lot of these cultures. hoosier, b have to news we have the latests one. out ofosto headlines. .t is related to this incident a suspect is dead. another is that large. a manhunt is going on in the watertown area of massachusetts. toe is the numbers to call discuss this with randall larsen. from "usa today," 30 agencies are part of the effort to look for clues. how do the different agencies work together?

whatever observations and about what is successful and what can be improved on? guest: we've made significant improvements on how we work together since 9/11. remember the bombing in oklahoma city in 1995. the department of defense, there were 27 different military units reporting back to 27 different agencies. it was not well-coordinated. we have done a lot to fix that now. if we have a situation now in the military hopes to respond, they are under one commander. it is very coordinated. we have seen that with the joint terrorism task force. when we have a big event like the super bowl, the secret service is in charge. everyone else works for them. we have a coordinated command center. most of this did not exist before thougwe havlo of work to do to continue to improve our response

, and organizational structures like this better this complex -- i spent four years in the embassy in thailand. thailand has won police department with a general in charge. that is easy to coordinate like a military organization. united states has 18,000 police departments. secret have the fbi, service, all the others at the federal level. i think what he sought in boston was an extraordinary effort. part of that was because it was a well-coordinated before hand. that gives a big advantage in the response. every injured person on the street the rescuers got to survive. this is reporting i am getting from the chief of the emergency departments at several hospitals. i do not know if you have ever when i was marathon, in a marathon at 50, there were

so many doctors and first responders trained in first aid. at the finish line, they have a lot of them congregated. the response was planned. police and law eorcement, the ick response, have the ornizationre put efe h lot of plannings to boston marathon and it paid off very well. hope before the day is over it will be resolved. alabama, chris is an independent scholar. caller: how are you doing today? my question is kind of directive. it seems to me there have been a number of faults like even less events to exert more control over the population. why did you leave out the fact was handling the

individual that bombed the world trade towers the first time? about theo not know first attack in 1993, but i was the executive director of the congressional commission on weapons of mass destruction. our chairman was a former senator bob graham of florida. the chairman of the intelligence committee in the senate. he was the co-chair of the joint senate-house investigation of 9/11. he would tell you he is still ,ery concerned about the fbi had a paid informant that provided housing to two of the individuals involved with a 19 hijaers. ene was running the joint vestigation,kept ting to get information from the fbi. they never allowed that. these were our representatives

in congress that were supposed to do the investigation. they were never allowed to interview that individual. i am not here to be an apologist for the fbi. when they do something i think is good luck and sing in boston today, i will give them credit. i still have problems with that. i do not think the fbi was involved in 9/11, but i cannot figure out why when the senate and house do a joint investigation and the fbi prevents them from sinking witness, that bothers me. i think the fbi still has to answer for that. randall larsen is our guest. he is a founding director of the homeland security office. it is also in national security adviser. let go. naller in hanover, mass., sea is a republican. we're not discriminating against muslims. if you want to on the down, they

want to know everything about you from birth. ese people cfrom orseas. finding the heat this guy has on social network pages and finding out a lot about him. our policy is we cannot discriminate. we have to let them in. you have to give them a chance. you have to appease them and be nice. -- blowupgo and look the side of the street. i like your opinion. do you think our policy needs to change with more of a background check when they come into the country? in need to go deeper into the social networks in their history. thank you. expert inm not an immigration, but i am a citizen and i vote. it is something i am interested in. there is some validity to the questions you are asking about who will lead into the united states. that is a big debate going on right now. based on legislation in the 1970's, if you have a family

member here, it is easy for you to come to the country. if you look at countries like canada, they seem to be more interested in getting the talent they need for certain things. what can you bring to my country that will help our country grow and prosper? people who hate america are not in that group. clearly, i think there will be some investigation about how this individual got in. there is always the problem of people who change when they come here. e bombg in the area at a hotel in islamabad. the individual who did the bombing had worked there for 12 years. he was the nicest guy. everybody liked him. after he had been working there 10 years, he became radicalized. he was the guy that carried in the bomb. sometimes people change. clearly we need to not be bringing terrorists into the country through our immigration system. i agree with you. watching twitter for

breaking news. cnn is reporting that sources tell them the dead suspect has been identified as tamerlan tsarnaev, 26 years old. t isone still being sough his brother, dzhokhar tsarnaev. we're getting that news from twitter. the next caller? much forhank you so your service. i admire men like you want to serve and protect our country. i wanted to respond to the comment you made about mexico and how there are very bad people in mexico, especially the drug dealers, which it saee in the sseouo, adment how there pelen evy lture andgi. it was difficult to hear you say that because as the other

gentleman said, most terrorists are from the middle east. we know the situation with mexico and immigration is complex. it is difficult to hear a leader say that because it can be misconstrued as you being biased. a lot of people from mexico come here to feed their children. or the drugts dealers are a small percentage. i am a second- generation immigrant. my grandparents came through ellis island from denmark because they wanted to come to a country where they could live better and raise a family and have higr andard of living. i understand that. in congressional testimony, i hear members of congress say we need to clamp down on the

borders so terrorists cannot get across. in my opinion, 99.99% of people coming across the border are coming here for the same reason my grandparents did. they want to provide better for their children. we cannot walk and the we will keep the rr is not the way to do it. the vast majority of people in mexico are wonderful people. as our economy has been going down the past several years, illegal immigration has been slowing down coming across the border. unfortunately, the drugs and corruption on both sides of the border is a serious problem. people there. concerning the middle eastern and muslim terrorists, have caused a lot of americans to die and caused a lot of problems in this country. i am not saying that is not a problem. i am saying when i hear somebody on the radio said muslims and then i hear it people start talking about war muslims, it is

not. many of the people are not practicing muslims engaged in this. if you are a practicing muslim, he will not kill women and children any more than the big question is going to do that. there are people who have been raised in the sculptures who become corrupted and try to correct their religion, whether it is christianity. i do not care what religion is. it can be corrected in a bad way. i am against bad people. i like to protect the rights of all religions. one thing our country was founded on is not to be put in e c just cause you are a certain religion. is the director for the institute of: security and an expert at the institute for by the security. . randall is col larsen, retired.

byet napolitano was asked the senator from missouri about the definition of terrorism. let's listen to the exchange. [video clip] >> based on the evidence at this point, is there any difference between sandy hook and boston other than the choice of weapons? forell, in terms of intent death and destruction and injury, no. methodology, yes. we do not know the motivation behind boston. we do not know if it was domestic, international- it wase

motivation in sandy hook. >> we do not know the answers to those questions. impossible for me to sit at the table today and say they are identical except in the effect and impact. >> as i look at the evidence available, you must destruction and violence and the slaughter of innocents. in neither case do we know the motive. is we are so quick to call boston terror. calling the man with the high-capacity assault capacitynd the high- magazine, why are we not calling him a terrorist? >> i do not know the answer to that question.

host: why is that a significant question and exchange? guest: it is an interesting debate, what is the definition of terrorism? i know as recently as a couple of years ago, the definition of the department of finance had was different from the justice pant. lyterrorism is attacking non-military soft targets for a political purpose. i am not sure what the political purpose was in boston yet because they have not told us. i am not sure what the political purpose was when you talk about the shooting in colorado at the in fortor the shooting hood. some people keep saying he was a muslim and shot people so it must be terrorism. i do not quite know that. i have beenorar officers they used to save blowing up the marine barracks in beirut where for under 60 marines were killed

was an act of terrorism. thes the chairman of military department at the national war college. i do not think that was terrorism out of. we have battleships' firing into military targets. the only military targets they had to shoot back at was the marine barracks. they blew it up. it was an act of war. you can call it a regular warfare. clearly we understand 9/11 was terrorism. they claimed credit for it. they killed innocent civilians for a political purpose. it becomes a semantic debate. i can understand why the senator asked the question. i can also understand why the secretary had a hard time answering it because it depends which definition you are using. it gets downlitical purpose of the act. that is thketo terrorism. host: does the governmental response change when we hear the word in vote? we heard president obama use the

word. there was anticipation of him: the boston acted out of terror. guest: legally, it means the fbi can take the lead. if a weapon of mass destruction is involved, the federal government can be the lead. find a weapon of mass destruction down trees to the dynamite. there was a disgruntled husband that sent his wife a bomb in the mail. that turned out to be charged as a weapon of mass destruction. the bomber the other day might have thought he was cute sending the envelope, but it was very -- a very serious crime he committed. it has to do with who will be in charge of the investigation. that is the critical thing. ricin -- product the tintedought up the ricin- letters.

guest: when you see how well we were prepared legally and with the hospitals, it isn the a + range. at the oth ethe spectrum wh some that could tell a lot o people, unfortunately it is at the other end veof the worriedboit f the nation. withe past five years budget cuts, we have laid off 46,000 state and public health workers. that is one in five. that is the front lines of our public health. we use the term frequently called help security because it does not make a difference if the attacker is mother nature or a bioterrorist. all concerned about what is going on in china. it is getting worse every day in china.

we do not know where this will go. i have one figure if i can find it. i worry about bioterrorism. it is a serious threat we know mother nature is working all the time. i want to read you one thing from the world health organization. in february of 2003, a single individual affected with sars spent one night in a hotel in hong kong where he infected 16 others. within a few days, it spread to six countries on four continent. within weeks, it was on all the continents. the world is getting smaller and more crowded. some people say it is getting warmer. 3000 cases of sars can be traced back to that one person. that is what concerns me and the rld we live in today. ou tell me we have laid off one outfive help workers in america, i worried about the terrorism mother nature can do. i am very wod abo t st terrorisn

do. one of the important things is fore is a bill in congress reauthorization. it has a lot of bipartisan support. we have a lot of good republicans and democrats that understand the threat and what we need to do. we're hoping it will move through and the past to help our public health. col. randall larsen is our guest. we're talking about the latest news from the boston region. gary is on the independent line. caller: i would like to make a general comment in relationship to the bombing. from theit differ weather underground? they are college professors know. ofm curious as to the link

the two immigrants going to i wonder if they were radicalized in school w beral college professors oif they brought their radicalized ideas with them to the u.s. when they emigrated. thank you. guest: it will be very instructive fto find out where the radicalization took place. if immigration allowed them to legally come into the united states and they were already radicalized and planning such things, that will send our investigation in one direction. when you asked the difference between the weather underground and people who are putting bombs in the pentagon and other government buildings, i do not see there is a lot of difference. if you are putting bombs in places to put -- to kill innocent civilians for a political purpose, sometimes it

is hard to say if a school shooting was terrorism. when you do an act of violence for political reason, that clearly fit everyone's definition. i do not care if you are on the right or left. there is terrorism only left with peta who do not like as eating animals or whatever. they do lots of damage in the country. had environmental terrorists on the cover of the book they put out in 1999. ere are terrorists. those are the people we need to be worried about. nbc news headline, boston on lockdown. here is what the story says. the area was in total lockdown as the police hunted for the marathon bombing suspect on the loose after his brother was killed in a chain of events that left one cop dead and another injured, according to officials.

nbc news says authorities have urged the public to stay inside, lock their doors, and do not let anyone but a law enforcement officer in. there is a massive manhunt underway. we're asking people to shelter in place. cally, is a republican new york caller. turn down your tv. you are on the air. go ahead. let's move on to al calling us from maryland on the democrats' line. caller: i am worried we are guarding these people. they did not come to this country with these weapons on them. about how we are harming our own terrorists. large companies have and thingsl drugs

like the bubonic plague and everyt dng experimentsn its. do you know if these things are safe? the companies experimented for making cheers, are these companies safe from terrorist attacks? guest: that is a good question. we spend a lot of. looking at that. in 1999 and 2,000, the answer to your question was no. since 9/11 and the anthrax issue of 2001, great strides have been made in making our laboratories safer. we had an individual who had a bogus resume who was initially accused of the and trucks letters. it turned out he was not guilty. nevertheless, he had a bogus resume and was working in a laboratory with dangerous

pathogens. the back room system failed. we've made great improvements. i am far more comfortable with it. 99. % of the pathogens i am worried about being used as a weapon exist in nature. we had someone die in california from the played recently. 400turner had nearly buffalo die because the pathogens were in the soil. they exist in nature. that is where i am concerned the terrorists can get them. thanve done a better job when we look back in 1999 about the laboratories. host: callers on twitter are addressing this question about the exchange between the senator and secretary. bothperson says they were paris because they inflicted terror. sasha says the children were

at sandy hook, but i do not know the answer. guest: we get down to semantics. anyone with children or grandchildren will be terrorized weather is a theater shooting or whatever. between april 3 and april 10 this year, there were 10 people killed in chicago with handguns. is that terrorism? that terrorizes me. i have family members that live in the area. everybody has a different definition of terrorism. the one that sends -- seemed to connect the mall is if people are doing it for a political purpose. 9/11, it was clear. blowing up the world trade center. even timothy mcveigh, one of the and no,terrorism intentionally parked his truck in front of the child care center with 2,500 pounds of explosives.

that is where the worst cases of terrorism i have seen in the united states. the boston headline is one suspect is dead and the other is at large. let's look for some of the latest reporting. watertown is the epicenter of the search right now. residents are trapped in their homes as convoys of troops arrived this morning by the hour. schools are closed. universities including harvard and mit, also boston public schools are shot for the day. nbc news says the overnight violence began near mit about six hours after the fbi released surveillance pictures of the two men suspected of planting bombs near the finish line of the boston marathon killing three and wounding 176. tips about the identities of the suspects were still pouring in

when the brothers approached and in i.t. police officer in his vehicle and fatally shot him in the head. legal permanent residents of the united states who moved here a decade ago. they stole his cruiser and robbed a 7/11. guest: i like to congratulate the incredible number of heroes i have seen since the first bomb went off. you talked about the police officer who was killed trying to apprehend these guys. responders and the average citizen, in most cases the first responders are people like us. amanda ripley wrote a great book about this. in most cases, particularly natural disasters, the first responders are the people on the street corner that step forward. everybody is sophisticated enough to know now when a bomb goes off, terrorists like to

split the second one. nevertheless, all those people that ran to help in the second bomb goes off 15 seconds later. i am so impressed with the heroes. host: we see a photograph of president obama talking with one of the marathon officials. the headline, "you will run again." how can we be trained to identify suspicious activity? how will we know if we should ife thg -- should say it? guest: agog out to the parker classic -- parkway classic on sunday. it will probably be about 65 degrees. if you see someone wearing long coats, that is the sort of thing. if people set something down and quickly walk away from it, what

is not normal. that we only have so many law enforcement people. we have a guy in times where the waterway and there may be a normal explanation for it. i get on the metra system and by putting my earphones and a listen to my music or whatever when that is probably not a very smart thing, particularly for a guy like me to do. but it is just being aware -- you know, it is so easy. when i went to vietnam ever went said, stay alert, stay alive. i think people will be a little bit more alert right now, but just look for things that are out of place. is an author.t